Question about percentages

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Elowa
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Question about percentages

Post by Elowa » Thu Nov 15, 2007 5:08 pm

First, thanks to the development team for all the hard work! This site is looking great.

I've noticed some of the resources have percentages higher than 100%. How is that possible? For example, there's a couple current ones for Starsider:

Trivewe, Hardened Arveshium Steel (SWGCraft Parser / --) (Unavailable)
ER CR CD DR FL HR MA PE OQ SR UT
- 934 830 195 - 557 117 - 772 336 486
- 116.7% 127.6% 19.5% - 55.7% 29.2% - 77.2% 33.6% 48.6%

Deukakoium, Crystallized Bicorbantium Steel (SWGCraft Parser / --) (Unavailable)
ER CR CD DR FL HR MA PE OQ SR UT
- 976 317 686 - 752 231 - 943 306 359
- 122% 48.7% 68.6% - 75.2% 57.7% - 94.3% 30.6% 35.9%

Thanks!
Elowa Winfield
Starsider

Sobuno
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Post by Sobuno » Thu Nov 15, 2007 5:23 pm

This happens if the cap is set at an incorrect value. Can anyone verify the resources mentioned below?

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Post by Sobuno » Thu Nov 15, 2007 5:34 pm

I found out why now, the resources mentioned were JTL steel thus having no cap, but they were inheriting "Steel"'s caps anyway (And steel inheriting its parent's caps etc.)

Should be fixed now, but please post any other resources you find with percentage > 100.0

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Post by Zimoon » Thu Nov 15, 2007 7:10 pm

Sobuno wrote:I found out why now, the resources mentioned were JTL steel thus having no cap, but they were inheriting "Steel"'s caps anyway (And steel inheriting its parent's caps etc.)

Should be fixed now, but please post any other resources you find with percentage > 100.0
Sobuno, or Sly, if possible you can hand me a list of the caps you use now and I can create some script to verify them against the resourcetree.XML file which I am pretty confident is correct. Should CSV or alike work for you?

/Z

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Post by Zimoon » Thu Nov 15, 2007 7:11 pm

Or the other way around, you can also verify the database somehow from the XML file. Then check both class names and caps.

/Z

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Post by Sobuno » Thu Nov 15, 2007 7:15 pm

Zimoon wrote:
Sobuno wrote:I found out why now, the resources mentioned were JTL steel thus having no cap, but they were inheriting "Steel"'s caps anyway (And steel inheriting its parent's caps etc.)

Should be fixed now, but please post any other resources you find with percentage > 100.0
Sobuno, or Sly, if possible you can hand me a list of the caps you use now and I can create some script to verify them against the resourcetree.XML file which I am pretty confident is correct. Should CSV or alike work for you?

/Z
I think the caps are correct, the problem is that any parent caps will override the child caps. But what's the link to the XML file again?

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Post by Zimoon » Thu Nov 15, 2007 7:17 pm

Sobuno wrote:I think the caps are correct, the problem is that any parent caps will override the child caps. But what's the link to the XML file again?
Aha, I see, when it should be the other way around :D

EDITED: Files now found at http://simongronlund.googlepages.com/swgresourcefiles

/Z
Last edited by Zimoon on Sat Feb 02, 2008 1:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: edited URL

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gelgamesh
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Post by gelgamesh » Fri Nov 16, 2007 1:21 am

Found another one in Raidant:
Acoblaium, Conductive Borcarbitic Copper (SWGCraft Parser / --) (Unavailable)
ER CR CD DR FL HR MA PE OQ SR UT
- 810 713 431 - 276 362 - 933 429 720
- 101.2% 71.3% 61.5% - 42.4% 36.2% - 93.3% 53.6% 90%

» Naboo 16d ago (SWGCraft..)

I was wondering how hard it would be to list both specific resource and parent percentages, that way if I have, say an Iron specific resource slot to fill for, say ixi? ship chassises, i wouldn't have to wonder if i harvested the best Iron for the slot.
Please don't get me wrong, you guys have done an outstanding job with the resource page and i'm probably too new to understand the implications, but does the above 'discrepancy' mean that if i used Acobla copper to craft an item that requires Cold Resistant copper, I stand to gain a huge boost in my averaged quality for the prototype.
/inhale
My questions are Can a specific resource overcome its parents caps? and Are specific resource percentages useful for anything other than Light Saber crafting?

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Post by Zimoon » Fri Nov 16, 2007 8:09 am

gelgamesh wrote:...I was wondering how hard it would be to list both specific resource and parent percentages, that way if I have, say an Iron specific resource slot to fill for, say ixi? ship chassises, i wouldn't have to wonder if i harvested the best Iron for the slot.
I guess what you are asking for here is not about resources but is about schematics which can use generic resources. Hence such figures will only clutter the Current Resources view.

There have been many such tools out there. MyRes was one, several spread sheets, etc. My SWGAide will have it once I coma that far, and am finished with the ISDroid stuff I am adding as we speak.
gelgamesh wrote:...Can a specific resource overcome its parents caps?
No, the parent cap equals the "best" cap for one of its child classes and can thence never be surpassed.
gelgamesh wrote: Are specific resource percentages useful for anything other than Light Saber crafting?
Yes, there are numerous schematics that require explicit resource classes, which may have caps on them.

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Savacc
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Post by Savacc » Fri Nov 16, 2007 9:53 am

gelgamesh wrote:but does the above 'discrepancy' mean that if i used Acobla copper to craft an item that requires Cold Resistant copper, I stand to gain a huge boost in my averaged quality for the prototype.
/inhale
My questions are Can a specific resource overcome its parents caps? and Are specific resource percentages useful for anything other than Light Saber crafting?
Please remember this site is still in beta testing. There are still many "bugs" in the system, and this is one. a cap was applied to this JTL resource that should not have been. There are no caps on any JTL resources.

As Sobuno has stated he was incorrectly applying a "parent cap" for copper to the JTL copper. So the way Sabuno was defining "parent cap", then yes, the JTL copper exceeds the "parent cap" for copper. However, the JTL resources, from their very beginning, have always not followed the caps for their resource types. The JTL resources have always had no caps.

The copper in your example is actually a bad one to use as an example, because the only stat that exceeds the "parent cap" for copper is CR, and CR is not used in any schematic in the game as an experimental property. However if we imagine that there were a schematic that needed CR and called for copper as a resource, then this resource would be an outstanding choice to use. Because it does exceed the "parent cap" for CR (which according to Lunariel is 800), it will be be treated as a 100% CR resource. It is actually the same as a resource greater then 962 with the 4% bonus to resources applied that makes it exceed 100%. In all cases any value over 100% is truncated to 100% before going on to the experimantation phase. The question is, when is it truncated, before or after it is averaged with the other resources? The answer is after. I know this because I have used resources greater then 962 with resources less then 962 and still been able to get to 100%.

So your question of wether you get a benifit from using a JTL resource that exceeds the "parent cap" for that resource in a schematic where that generic resource is called for. My answer is yes. Because it exceeds 100%, when it is averaged with a resource that is lower then 100% it will increase the average.

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Savacc
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Post by Savacc » Sat Nov 17, 2007 11:35 am

Ive had a day to think about the above post and now I think I may be wrong.
I was assuming that the JTL resources that exceed the "parent caps" are treated like the 4% resource increases. That may not be true. I have also been thinking that the 4% resource increase may not work the way I thought it did.
I had always imagined that the 4% resource increase would be done off the top, to every resource before they go into the schematic and all the formulas and averaging are done. Now Im thinking the 4% is done at the end, rather then the beginning. That is, the resources go into the schematic, all the figureing is done and a result comes out. Then a 4% bonus is added to the final result if you have that expertise. The reason Im thinking it works this way is because of what happens in the assembly screen while you are crafting. On the screen where you choose your resources, you can single click on a resource and see how that resource will work in your schematic. You get the colored bar, and a detailed breakdown in the lower right box. We all know that those details do not include the 4% expertise bonus. Which is why Im thinking it gets added later.
If you were to put Gelgamesh's JTL resource into the same evaluation phase, with our imaginary schematic that called for CR, you would not get a 101% result, it will be 100%.
So now Im thinking resources, like the JTL ones, that exceed their "parent caps" are not figured like the 4% resource increase. They are instead figured at different phases of the process. The best indication we have is that these resources are "nerfed" down to the "parent cap" so that we are not averaging any values over 100% for any resource.

Could be that im just thinking too much. :roll:

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